(anonymous guest) (logged out)

Copyright (C) by the contributors. Some rights reserved, license BY-SA.

Sponsored by the Wiki Symposium and the Nuveon GmbH.


Add new attachment

Only authorized users are allowed to upload new attachments.

This page (revision-19) was last changed on 21-Apr-2007 13:23 by  

This page was created on 02-Mar-2007 15:53 by

Only authorized users are allowed to rename pages.

Only authorized users are allowed to delete pages.

Difference between version and

At line 38 added 49 lines
They already have no emphasis if viewed entirely in monospaced font -- on console or cell phone. Also most users are not really able to distinguish fonts on first glance -- maybe you can do it if you use the ugly Courier, but not with DejaVu family, for example (which is the default on most Linux distributions). So, relying on emphasis using monospace font is fishy from the beginning (and the markup **is** preserved, so a more visible form of emphasis can be added/substituted).
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Mar-08
Quoted from the article page:
//Triple curly brackets ({{{{{{}}}}}}) were chosen due to their visibility and unlikeliness to be in the "code" itself.//
I'd guess that I've typed }}} as part of code hundreds of times over the years.
**Update:** Wait a moment... [[http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=%22%7D%7D%7D%22|A google code search for "}}}"]] just showed me 120,000 matches. (When using google code search, use "" to bracket what you're typing. Match counts seem to vary from moment to moment when repeating the same search, but afaik it never shows false positives, ie I believe that A) the 120,000 is about right or is an underestimate for }}} and that B) google code search remains useful for testing other proposals.) Anyhoo, I think you should propose something else and use google's code search to test proposed solutions. I just tried all obvious combinations on my US keyboard. Straight doubles, triples and even quadruples all showed thousands of matches. So too all mixed doubles and mixed triples and quadruples that were grouped on the keyboard (eg @#$ showed 20,000 matches). Even crazy stuff like :`; showed hundreds of matches...
-- [[RaiphMellor]], 2007-Apr-19
In preformatted blocks, triple braces are only recognized as the end marker at the very beginning of a line. Google code finds 200 matches, which is probably acceptable, since braces can be made meaningless to the Creole parser with a single leading space.
In inline nowiki, triple braces could cause problems only when followed by something else, which has been considered here (rightfully imo) as an
edge case. Workarounds exist, such as two successive inline nowikis.
Your last search shows that no fix end marker is safe. User-selected end markers would probably make some implementations much more complicated.
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-19
I can't believe the 200 number. Right now a google code search for ^}}} (triple close brace at the start of a line) shows not 200 but 30,000 matching files.
(The regexp that better matched your definition, namely ^}}}*$, actually matched about half as many, which suggests the code search may still be borked. Google code search was clearly borked last night. A google engineer emailed me today to say he thought it was now fixed, but I don't believe him. Regardless of google code search, I am sure I've written and read occurences of }}} in a line on its own within code, which is why I'm convinced the 200 count (which translates to "very rare") is wildly inaccurate even if the 30,000 count is also inaccurate.)
I agree that user-selected end markers would suck for the reason you outlined.
So, I still think you need to pick something other than triple braces, and I still think you should test proposals with google code search, but I agree you won't get a perfect pick and should instead pick a straight double or triple and I wish to emphasize that, while Google code search results should be checked, the result //counts// should be viewed with some suspicion for the time being. (Fwiw, I've posted [[http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Code-Search/browse_thread/thread/72d626abc26db050/#|a message]] to try prod google labs into fixing/improving the counts.)
-- [[RaiphMellor]], 2007-Apr-20
Here is my search: [[http://www.google.com/codesearch/advanced_code_search?hl=fr&q=+%5E%7D%7D%7D]] (advanced search with regexp caret-rightbrace-rightbrace-rightbrace). It still returns
200. Now I can't exclude Google takes into account that I'm located in Switzerland and I speak
Writing triple-braces alone is a matter of style. In languages which use braces for block begin/end
markers, I'd expect multiple braces mainly in compact one-line expressions, such as macro
definitions and JavaScript inline code, and maybe in code generated automatically. I'm not that
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-21
Most wiki engines (the NoWikiMarkupComparison is not finished yet, I have no free time recently) use exactly this syntax, and I don't remember **anyone** complaining, even on higly C- and Java-centered wikis. The truth is that most any language that uses braces to markup blocks also ignores whitespace, so it's very easy to prevent the {{{~}}}}}} from interfering. In addition, the non-indented braces are only likely at the end of pasted code, so it's easy to space-stuff them.
I think we should rather use dice rolls to check our markup, as it seems to be much more reliable than google code search and gives much more consistent results. I just repeat Yves' and Raiph's searches, and the outcome is truly amusing: the search for {{{^~}}}}}} returns 200 hits, while the search for more restrictive pattern {{{^~}}}\s*$}}} returns 300 hits. Then again, search for the most restrictive {{{^~}}}$}}} gives 18000 hits. Clearly a great thing to base our standards on.
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-21
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
19 21-Apr-2007 13:23 8.723 kB to previous my results
18 21-Apr-2007 13:22 8.722 kB to previous | to last my results
17 21-Apr-2007 13:22 8.722 kB to previous | to last my results
16 21-Apr-2007 09:28 7.707 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Still 200 for me
15 21-Apr-2007 06:57 7.074 kB to previous | to last
14 21-Apr-2007 06:29 6.82 kB to previous | to last I still think triple braces is the wrong choice
13 20-Apr-2007 09:18 5.66 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Google finds 200 triple-brace matches
12 20-Apr-2007 09:13 5.659 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Make recommended XHTML and sample output of italic agree
11 20-Apr-2007 07:59 4.996 kB RaiphMellor to previous | to last
10 20-Apr-2007 06:26 5.021 kB RaiphMellor to previous | to last
9 20-Apr-2007 04:14 4.076 kB RaiphMellor to previous | to last }}} con
8 08-Mar-2007 17:10 3.802 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last monospace is bad for emphasis
7 08-Mar-2007 16:48 3.273 kB to previous | to last nowiki should be specified as not having any special formatting
6 06-Mar-2007 13:37 2.92 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last agree on separation of {{{...}}} and ##...##
5 06-Mar-2007 12:01 2.397 kB to previous | to last separate issues of no-wiki and tt-formatting
4 02-Mar-2007 16:44 1.978 kB MicheleTomaiuolo to previous | to last escape character
3 02-Mar-2007 16:43 1.966 kB MicheleTomaiuolo to previous | to last escape character
2 02-Mar-2007 16:21 1.67 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last
1 02-Mar-2007 15:53 1.216 kB to last Critique of text and def. in Creole 0.5 final
« This page (revision-19) was last changed on 21-Apr-2007 13:23 by