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This page (revision-50) was last changed on 30-Jan-2007 14:29 by ChuckSmith  

This page was created on 05-Sep-2006 10:59 by Christoph

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Comment by Max: Isn't this inconsisten with "linebreaks create BR elements"? I think the result should be:
<li>This is a single list item<br />
followed by a paragraph?</li>
No, because a linebreak signals the end of a list item.
-- [Chuck Smith], 18-Sep-2006
! Moving to and from emails
* One criterion I've always considered import is: can I easily copy/paste from and to emails? Two Creole constructs currently fail this test:
** Line breaks: email programs frequently insert line breaks of their own! This would break the wiki markup. Why not use the LaTeX double backslash for line breaks?
** bullet lists: I often see lists written like this (especially by Emacs users) and actually like the WYSIWYG quality it has:
- this is a list item that spans
several lines
- this is a nested list
This line is not part of the list.
* I would like to see a minimal markup language. For the more frequently used constructs, ASCII art-like syntax is OK, but for more esoteric commands it makes sense to introduce a uniform macro syntax.
* For our own home-grown wiki syntax, we used a staged translation into a proper abstract syntax tree: The final syntax is nested, much like HTML; i.e., there is clearly defined scope and arbitrary structured blocks can be nested. Before, there is a special translation step that transforms line-centric wiki markup to the block-centric abstract syntax. Advantages:
** I can use our syntax in emails and convert it easily to both HTML and LaTeX (because we have an abstract syntax tree).
** For styled Ajax-based text entry, one needs to convert from HTML to a wiki syntax. A macro syntax permits a very simple solution here: translate HTML tags to macros while keeping the name.
** Reference: "A Wiki as an Extensible RDF Presentation Engine", Rauschmayer, Kammergruber. [http://www.pst.ifi.lmu.de/~rauschma/bib/#rauschma:swemwikked_eswc:2006]
-- [Axel Rauschmayer], 2006-09-19
There is one problem with using indentation to indicate list nesting. Space counting. It's especially annoying when you want to make a nested list and then return to the previous level -- especially if you use indentation large enough to be easily visible. Broken TAB key only adds to the inconvenience.
As for macros, I agree that it's a nice solution to extending wiki markup, but the exact mechanism is usually very engine-dependent. For example, in the [[MoinMoin]] plug-in I re-used the "placeholder" syntax for macros. I'm not sure if it's right, but seems appropriate -- after all the spec doesn't say how you should serialize the object, quoting it raw is also one possible manner of serialization.
The exact method of parsing the raw text is left up to the wiki engine authors. Some wikis use full-blown context-free parsers, other rely almost exclusively on regular expressions, most use some ways of home-brew hybrid solutions. That's ok, as long as the users can use the common markup in all of them (even when there are some occasional artifacts of the parser showing up once in a while).
Maybe there should be a separate page describing the *scope* of this spec?
-- [RadomirDopieralski], 2006-09-19
I'm currently parsing the creole markup at save time, and storing XML (actually subset of XHTML). Then applying the reverse transformation at edit time, XML to Creole. So could implement a specific XMLToEmail transformation.
I think it has a number of advantages. Like sloppy creole markup is corrected, can just embed the XML directly into web pages, and XML to Creole transformation is far easier than the reverse for displaying for editting purposes.
-- [JaredWilliams], 2006-09-20
Radomir: good points, especially about list indentation levels and scope description. I'm really warming up to Creole, it's not easy to go beyond matters of taste.
Two more comments:
Why not ~~italics~~? But for me clashing with URIs is not a problem, I don't want free-standing URIs anyway. Only excluding http:// and ftp:// seems a bit limited, though. How about https and mailto?
Line breaks: This is something I cannot live with. Again: I think the LaTeX way (empty lines produce paragraphs, line breaks have to be explicitly introduced via double backslash) of doing this works best, as especially under Unix, programs frequently insert line breaks. I hardly ever use explicit line breaks and thus think that one should explicitly mention them if one really needs them.
-- [Axel Rauschmayer], 2006-09-23
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
50 30-Jan-2007 14:29 17.502 kB ChuckSmith to previous revert spam
49 30-Jan-2007 13:53 0.13 kB to previous | to last Great work! [url=http://hpjijpix.com/bnwk/vsxn.html]My homepage[/url] | [url=http://zlzdzlfh.com/ntuk/yocm.html]Cool site[/url]
48 23-Sep-2006 15:01 17.502 kB to previous | to last
47 23-Sep-2006 13:06 17.501 kB null to previous | to last
46 20-Sep-2006 12:32 16.665 kB Jared Williams to previous | to last
45 19-Sep-2006 22:34 16.172 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last response to Axel
44 19-Sep-2006 21:06 14.946 kB to previous | to last
43 18-Sep-2006 11:36 13.26 kB ChuckSmith to previous | to last replied to Max's comment to discussion page
42 11-Sep-2006 22:09 12.966 kB martinswiki to previous | to last
41 11-Sep-2006 21:54 12.878 kB martinswiki to previous | to last
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