(anonymous guest) (logged out)

Copyright (C) by the contributors. Some rights reserved, license BY-SA.

Sponsored by the Wiki Symposium and the Nuveon GmbH.

 
View Attach Info

Add new attachment

Only authorized users are allowed to upload new attachments.

This page (revision-40) was last changed on 26-Sep-2007 09:31 by ChuckSmith  

This page was created on 23-Feb-2007 03:55 by RadomirDopieralski

Only authorized users are allowed to rename pages.

Only authorized users are allowed to delete pages.

Difference between version and

At line 74 added 47 lines
---------
Radomir, (qouting you in //italics//)
//But that's not a "clean" solution. It doesn't feel right.//
It feels right for me. Usually this takes a while when you where used to something else ;). It feels right because something that is used quite often is cleanly distinguishable for me as a human reader. Again {{{** **second level bold**}}} will cause the same discontent amongst wiki users as {{{'''''bold italics'''''}}} is causing discontent amongst Wikipedia users. We already talked about it in [[Talk.Bold And Italics]]. It's not only the ambiguity problem for parsers, you know.
//This is in fact plainly visible by the need for additional escape character markup.//
You write as if we would introduce an escape character only for this proposal. We need a general escape character anyway.
//The list-bold ambiguity can also be easily solved with a similar technique, an "invisible space" similar to the one used for }}}.//
You still thinking in terms of "some kind of character to distinguish between bold and lists", you later call it the "list indicator character". You still think in the [[Require Space After Bullet Proposal]]. With two distinguishable characters for bold and lists you don't need this artificial "list indicator character" anymore. The escape character in this proposal is solely for the [[EdgeCases]] of using minus as a first character. While with the [[Require Space After Bullet Proposal]] we need a "invisible space" escape character for 25% of the lists usage. People only have to learn the use of the tilde if it happens to them, that they have to use minus to indicate a negative number as the first text in a line and don't want to use the nowiki markup, this is an [[EdgeCase]] (0.1%?). With the [[Require Space After Bullet Proposal]] we would design our markup around [[EdgeCases]] because we would trade away easy usage of "lists with bold" (25%) for being able to use "negative numbers as first literal in a line" (0.01%?).
//Many wiki engines select a different markup for nested lists -- indentation.//
We already have been through this discussion. We don't want the user to count whitespace. Creole does not rely on whitespace in front of elements. But we should document this better I think. For a user it doesn't matter if a second level element is indented with two or three character, but for a simple line based regex parser it does, because it is hard to do a "look ahead/behind", right?.
{{{
thats how your parser expects it:
one
two
three
and thats how the user does it:
one
two
three
}}}
Now tell me in an **wink of an eye** what the difference in my second example is?. The "wink of an eye" is important here: as soon as the user has to count this becomes a root of confusion and errors.
Coming back to the general escape character issue I therefore think that whitespace like proposed in the [[Add No Wiki Escape Proposal]] is not a good character. It might work in the case of nowiki markup, but not when you try to escape something at the beginning of a line. To be consistent we should have **one** general escape character that works everywhere, but let us discuss that in the new [[Escape Character Proposal]], not here.
//Of course, using an otherwise unused character for marking lists would work. This is why nobody but me is complaining about the numbered lists//
I hardly use the numbered lists myself. I even could live with it if it becomes an addition, but it's just to frequently used I guess (is it?). But we should not go into this discussion here.
//Which ones do you like best? Are there any other approaches we missed?//
Using hyphens for lists of course.
--ChristophSauer, 2007-02-23
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
40 26-Sep-2007 09:31 32.753 kB ChuckSmith to previous restore
39 26-Sep-2007 01:03 32.766 kB 219.138.204.162 to previous | to last
38 21-Apr-2007 15:24 32.753 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last refactoring: moved annunc from talk to here
37 17-Apr-2007 11:02 31.894 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last BBEdit and TextWrangler do hard wrap
36 14-Apr-2007 10:42 31.148 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last added link to linebreak argument on lists on relevant discussion
35 03-Apr-2007 12:09 30.974 kB 62.12.165.34 to previous | to last No nested lists.
34 22-Mar-2007 16:19 30.741 kB ChuckSmith to previous | to last reply to Yves about ##
33 22-Mar-2007 12:30 30.352 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last List indenting
32 22-Mar-2007 12:03 29.945 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last people commonly indent lists
31 22-Mar-2007 10:12 29.552 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Clarification
30 22-Mar-2007 09:33 29.004 kB MicheleTomaiuolo to previous | to last emphasis on whole par
29 21-Mar-2007 20:22 28.809 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last What about sharp?
28 21-Mar-2007 18:26 27.975 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last keep
27 21-Mar-2007 18:24 27.894 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last keep
26 21-Mar-2007 18:24 27.89 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last keep
25 21-Mar-2007 16:51 26.853 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Reject
24 08-Mar-2007 17:21 26.285 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Thanks
23 08-Mar-2007 17:16 26.239 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last experiments
22 08-Mar-2007 16:47 25.568 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Experiment feedback?
21 08-Mar-2007 16:19 25.284 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last single hyphens only
« This page (revision-40) was last changed on 26-Sep-2007 09:31 by ChuckSmith