| At line 3 changed one line |
| Unknown option --htmlbody Usage: /home/www/e6920da4aa34854a1e7ec7f172bb9ab4/web/cgi-bin/creole [options] Filter Creole stdin and renders it to another format. --body naked body without header and footer --creole Creole output --help this help message --html HTML output (default) --latex LaTeX output --rtf RTF output --test test input (stdin ignored) --text plain text output |
| Unknown option --htmlbody |
| Usage: /home/www/.../web/cgi-bin/creole [options] |
| Filter Creole stdin and renders it to another format. |
| --body naked body without header and footer |
| --creole Creole output |
| --help this help message |
| --html HTML output (default) |
| --latex LaTeX output |
| --rtf RTF output |
| --test test input (stdin ignored) |
| --text plain text output |
| At line 94 added 214 lines |
|
| I'm flattered by this request, and open. However, I'm not certain |
| what I want to do with it will suit all participants. What |
| I list as requirements on [[YvesPiguet]] would be difficult to |
| negotiate for me. If that doesn't match Creole evolution, I'll end |
| with a non-Creole parser. This is a freedom I want to keep. |
|
| My implementation is 2800 lines of ISO C (C90), very easy |
| to compile on any platform; it doesn't rely on any library. |
| It's documented with Doxygen comments. It's still a work |
| in progress. I won't be able to spend much time on a long-term |
| commitment. |
|
| I'd be curious to have more opinions. |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Mar-20 |
|
| There are several options: |
|
| *Your code could be used as a reference parser and it could be improved by anyone, and also be ported to other languages |
| *Your code could also just be used as an example. It could help others (e.g. me), as I'd like to see how it works. |
| *If you do not opensource your code, I still would propose to keep the idea of writing one working parser in such a way that it can be easily adopted for all Wiki engines. |
|
| What I am currently interested: Your code is able to convert the Creole markup into several other languages like HTML or LaTeX. I currently assume that your parser reads in the Creole markup independently of the required output format, and what is actually written out can be easily changed. Or did you write separate parsers for each of the output languages? |
|
| It could also be that it would not be that useful to adopt your parser for others, for example because their Creole parser is integrated into their engines existing markup parser. But for JSPWiki the Creole markup is just converted by a separate page filter to normal JSPWiki markup and then rendered by the default JSPWiki parser. Not the best way, but with a flexible output format it could also be changed to output HTML directly instead of JSPWiki markup. |
|
| Some questions: |
|
| # Do you think your code could be easily adopted for other languages (perl, python, java, php, ...)? |
| # Would it make sense to do this? |
| # Is it easy to change the parser when the input markup changes? |
| # Is it easy to customize the output? |
|
| -- [[SteffenSchramm]], 2007-Mar-20 |
|
| I've added a link to Doxygen documentation of Nyctergatis engine interface to [[YvesPiguet]]. |
| This will make it more difficult to retract now :-) If I opensource the engine, it should be under |
| the BSD license. |
|
| Answers to your questions: |
|
| # Java and Python, most probably. PHP, probably easy, maybe not very efficient because the engine doesn't rely on any library, so it goes down to low-level stuff such as folding CRLF sequences. Concerning Perl, based on my ancient experience, it would be possible, but I wouldn't like to do it myself... I think Perl is more suited to tasks where some of its built-in capabilities, such as regexp, can be exploited; that would require more work. |
| # My approach would be to compile the engine either as a standalone command-line application (as it's done now) and to call it from these languages, or maybe to compile it as an extension for these languages. Maintaining separate implementations in parallel would require much more work. |
| # Yes, I think so. Things which require lookahead over more than a few characters would be more difficult. The engine performs one pass, writing directly its output without intermediate storage of the document (just the state which includes nested lists and nested styles). |
| # Yes, very much. Output is completely factored out from parsing. It relies mainly on strings, with a few functions for character encoding, link encoding (URL), interwiki, etc, all optional. |
|
| I've added JSPWiki to the output formats supported by my sandbox... |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Mar-20 |
|
| Ok, my engine is now opensource, under the new BSD license. The |
| [[http://nyctergatis.com/creole/SimpleMarkup/html/|doxygen documentation]] |
| covers the whole source code, including the command-line application. I'll add a downloadable |
| archive very soon. Feedback welcome, of course. |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Mar-20 |
|
| I've renamed the library "Nyctergatis Markup Engine" (NME), made its source code available in a downloadable |
| archive and rewritten the pages @nyctergatis.com. I hope I haven't broken anything. |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Mar-20 |
|
| Just wanted to mention that I haven't forgotten NME, but plan to test it as soon as I have time. |
|
| -- [[SteffenSchramm]], 2007-Mar-28 |
|
| No problem! I'll continue improving it, so you'd better download it right before taking a look. |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Mar-28 |
|
| ---- |
| //Discussion begun by email// |
|
| I am afraid, I find that the orderd/unordered list bug I reported earlier seems not to be fixed. |
|
| Rationale: When in list mode (ordered and unordered list) the parser interprets double {{{**}}} or {{{##}}} at the beginning of the next line as the beginning of a new list, when it should be just {{{<b>}}} or {{{<tt>}}}. It also writes empty {{{<b></b>}}} and places the contents before it (last example). |
|
| In my interpretation, this is not correct. I added two plain paragraph examples which show the correct behaviour, IMO. |
|
| Please find a few input and output examples below. I am using [[http://nyctergatis.com/creole/|NME-071004.zip]]. |
|
| Here is the Creole code: |
| {{{ |
| a b |
| ##c## |
|
| a b |
| **c** |
|
| * ##a## b |
| ##c## |
|
| # ##a## b |
| ##c## |
|
| * ##a## b |
| **c** |
|
| # a |
| ##b## |
|
| * a |
| **b** |
| }}} |
|
| My HTML output looks like this: |
| {{{ |
| <!-- Generated by Nyctergatis Markup Engine, Oct 5 2007 19:27:19 --> |
| <html><body> |
| <p>a b <tt>c</tt></p> |
| <p>a b <b>c</b></p> |
| <ul> |
| <li><tt>a</tt> b</li> |
| <ol> |
| <li>c<tt></tt></li> |
| </ol> |
| </ul> |
| <ol> |
| <li><tt>a</tt> b</li> |
| <ol> |
| <li>c<tt></tt></li> |
| </ol> |
| </ol> |
| <ul> |
| <li><tt>a</tt> b</li> |
| <ul> |
| <li>c<b></b></li> |
| </ul> |
| </ul> |
| <ol> |
| <li>a</li> |
| <ol> |
| <li>b<tt></tt></li> |
| </ol> |
| </ol> |
| <ul> |
| <li>a</li> |
| <ul> |
| <li>b<b></b></li> |
| </ul> |
| </ul> |
| </body></html> |
| }}} |
|
| -- RJ, 2007-Oct-5 |
|
| It isn't a bug, imo, it's Creole specifications and implementation choices. |
| Nested lists are supported in Creole, so double-stars and double-sharps should |
| begin sublists when they're at the beginning of a line in a list. A design |
| choice which can be criticized is that item mark mismatches (such as {{{#}}} |
| following {{{*}}}, or {{{##}}} following *) are ignored. It's documented, though |
| ("For clarity, list markers should be used in a consistent way; but only the |
| first item of each list fixes the kind of the whole list"). |
|
| I've "fixed" the problem with {{{##}}} in readme.nme you mentionned in a previous |
| message by moving it so that it doesn't appear at the beginning of a line. |
| My error is a proof that my design choice leads too easily to ambiguities. |
| I'm probably going to change it. |
|
| Finally, concerning the empty {{{<b></b>}}}, it's caused by a trailing style marker |
| at the end of a paragraph (the first occurence of {{{**}}} is the sublist item marker). |
| Not really a problem, I think: it reflects accurately the source, even if it's |
| useless. |
|
| If you generate automatically Creole markup, a simple way to avoid the |
| ambiguities of {{{**}}} and {{{##}}} in lists is to avoid line breaks in lists items, |
| and in paragraphs for the sake of consistency. That's how we've converted |
| our help files for Sysquake from XML. |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Oct-5 |
|
| (...) |
| From my novice common sense understanding I believe that the following could make sense: |
|
| New list items of any kind ({{{*}}}, {{{**}}}, {{{#}}}, {{{##}}}) are only started if there is at least one white space chacter after the list characters (all list examples in the documentation also do it this way): |
|
| {{{ |
| ##text## -- <tt>text</tt> |
| **text** -- <b>text</b> |
| }}} |
|
| but |
|
| {{{ |
| ## text -- <ol><ol><li>text</li></ol></ol> |
| ** text -- <ul><ul><li>text</li></ul></ul> |
| }}} |
|
| It would also solve the dilemma I reported previously, and it would also allow to start 2nd level nested cells with no prior 1st level nesting. |
|
| The rationale is that most list markers are white-space separated from the list in the final output. Because this is so common, I believe that it also makes the Wiki Syntax easier to read. And it there is not much sense in bold whitespace like {{{** text**}}} anyway (it would not be rendered by HTML for sure). |
|
| If I was to change the documentation, it would read like: |
|
| "List items begin with a {{{*}}} or a {{{#}}} at the beginning of a line. Whitespace is optional before the {{{*}}} or {{{#}}} characters, but at least one space is required to separate it from the item's text. A list item ends at the line which begins with a new list or sublist item (* or # character followed by a space), blank line, heading, table, or nowiki block; like paragraphs, it can span multiple lines and contain line breaks forced with {{{\\}}}." |
|
| I can see now why the {{{<b></b>}}} is there. But from a common sense persepective, I still believe it should not. |
|
| -- RJ, 2007-Oct-5 |
|
| Your suggestion was already discussed here: [[Require Space After Bullet Proposal]]. It wasn't retained... |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Oct-6 |
|
| In NME-071009, list markup must be consistent: in the example below, the first item spans two lines with //bar// displayed in monospace, and a one-item numbered sublist. |
| {{{ |
| * foo |
| ## bar |
| *# baz |
| }}} |
|
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Oct-10 |
|
.