(anonymous guest) (logged out)

Copyright (C) by the contributors. Some rights reserved, license BY-SA.

Sponsored by the Wiki Symposium and the Nuveon GmbH.

 
View Attach Info

Add new attachment

Only authorized users are allowed to upload new attachments.

This page (revision-32) was last changed on 04-May-2007 16:05 by ChristophSauer  

This page was created on 14-Mar-2007 01:07 by 77.128.12.173

Only authorized users are allowed to rename pages.

Only authorized users are allowed to delete pages.

Difference between version and

At line 180 added 50 lines
-----------
As you know I voted against this proposal in the [[Creole 0.6]] poll. My problem might be that I don't see the use case other than adding code. I hardly (never) used the monospaced markup of JSPWiki because when I need it I do it for pasting in code, that also needs to be "nowikied", so I use the nowiki markup. Since it is almost my single use of it I don't like the idea of having to use 5 characters to achieve this. Maybe if you convince me that certain areas need monospaced font and at the same time need to have other markup trigger formatting quite frequently, then I could change my mind.
In short, I would like to see use cases that show me that this belongs to the [[Common Things People Need]].
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-05-02
In most cases, you don't need nowiki, monospace is enough. Merging both makes a
special case authors must remember; if they need bold monospace, or a monospace link,
they must respect a special nesting order if monospace and nowiki are the same. Separate
markup provides a clean list of double-character sequences for style, easy to remember;
with a little effort for the implementation, strict nesting can even be relaxed, making styling
much easier for many authors.
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-May-02
There's another problem we have with the CreolePageFilter: Since the underlying markup does not separate monospaced and nowiki (nowiki will always be monospaced in JSPWiki), we cannot implement a nowiki that is not monospaced without changing the native engine parser. I wonder how many other engines/implementations would have this problem. JSPWiki however has a markup for monospaced, therefore a compromise would be to not specify if nowiki is monospaced or not, then it would be no problem for us to implement it like this: ##only monospaced with a link [[ABC]]##. Janne, what do you think? But that is just JSPWiki of course...
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-05-03
You can output just plain text without any markup, except for special characters which must
be escaped with a tilde if my understanding of JSPWiki is correct. That's where a robust escape
mechanism is useful: you implement the converter once and for all (escaping all characters
which might end up in markup), you don't have to track future changes in the list of markup.
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-May-03
Oh, I don't really care. Monospaced is really presentation, and nowiki is functional - in fact, the JSPWiki nowiki just happens to render monospaced 'cos that's what people expect, and there's separate markup for monospaced-but-not-nowiki. It's just a matter of small tweaking of the HTML and the CSS that the engine outputs...
Just to confuse things a bit further: JSPWiki does //three// kinds of markup: (block, nowiki), (inline, nowiki), (inline, wiki). Look at the source code of the following examples:
{{{
This is block, nowiki. __foo__ //bar//, rendered with a <pre>
}}}
{{{ This is inline, nowiki. __foo__ //bar//, rendered with a <span> }}}
And, if there was a regular rendering engine, the following example would appear as (inline, wiki):
{{{
{{ This is inline, wiki. __foo__ //bar//, rendered with a <tt> }}
}}}
Maybe it would be useful to really distinguish between these four cases (and maybe add support for (block, wiki), something typically done with a <blockquote>).
-- [[JanneJalkanen]]
Ok, just spoke with an enduser and they don't know what monospaced means, and they don't care because they don't know what ascii art is either. It would make life easier when writing addresses for them: You don't need the akward linebreak syntax all the time, I just fear that they will then put a nowikiblock over the whole article, just for the sake of linebreak as linebreak ;-). So having a separate markup for nowiki, and one for monospaced would make sense, as long as one can combine the both. Hope everyone will help me to convert the creole markup examples in the over 400 pages in this wiki from {{{ {{{XXX~}}} }}} to {{{##{{{XXX~}}}##}}} then ;-) -- The question is indeed how people can convert their pages in wikis where there was no separation so far?
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-05-04
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
32 04-May-2007 16:05 14.119 kB ChristophSauer to previous it is not bad, but how can people/engines convert to a separation?
31 03-May-2007 15:50 13.312 kB JanneJalkanen to previous | to last
30 03-May-2007 12:20 12.627 kB JanneJalkanen to previous | to last
29 03-May-2007 11:40 12.27 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Use tilde
28 03-May-2007 10:05 11.858 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last Problems with JSPWiki, others engines too?
27 02-May-2007 21:28 11.183 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Separate markup makes markup more orthogonal and easier to remember
26 02-May-2007 19:26 10.672 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last if you provide me with usecases I could change my mind
25 23-Apr-2007 01:29 9.908 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last ok
24 23-Apr-2007 00:55 9.703 kB 85.221.141.46 to previous | to last nowiki is wrapped, right?
23 23-Apr-2007 00:23 9.421 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Word wrap in inline nowiki
22 21-Apr-2007 13:07 9.358 kB 85.221.141.46 to previous | to last wrapping is responsibility of browser, not parser
21 21-Apr-2007 13:06 9.358 kB 85.221.141.46 to previous | to last wrapping is responsibility of browser, not parser
« This page (revision-32) was last changed on 04-Mai-2007 16:05 by ChristophSauer