Talk.Creole0.6 seemd to indicate that it wouldn't be a good idea to make the escape character an addition. That's still my opinion.
I have difficulty in understanding how the decision process works, especially since last week.
-- YvesPiguet, 2007-Apr-9
Isn't embedding the style directly in the generated (x)html a mark of bad, uhm, style? I mean, it should be <div class="mail-quote"> rather than <div style="some arbitrary presentation that might not fit the overall style of the site">. Then again, there is the question of users using browsers that are not CSS-enabled -- they should at least see that they are missing something.
I think that the spec should show a "good" solution, or just don't show any at all if no good solution exists. I see several possibilities:
- only say that the text should be rendered as indented,
- only say thet the text should be marked as a quotation, in any way, not necessarily by indentation (some styles might use colors or colored bars),
- generate the quted parts as a blockquote (with a class),
- generate the quoted parts as a single-element, unordered list with special class for styling (with a class),
- generate the quoted parts as a single-element definition list with empty 'term' part,
- generate the quoted parts as a div, but with the '>' left in the text, and removed with style,
All of these solutions have their pros and cons, as far as I can tell none is 100% "correct".
-- RadomirDopieralski, 2007-06-12
The examples are just a possibility of how the markup could be represented. Developers have to decide for themselves which way would make most sense for their situation.
-- ChuckSmith, 2007-Jun-12
I've replaced "recommended" with "possible" for the XHTML with embedded style. Maybe this should be done everywhere. I agree that embedded style isn't very nice; however, the simplest, shortest rendition is sometimes more informational than clean output following W3 advices, which recommends against <i> and <b>.
-- YvesPiguet, 2007-Jun-12
I haven't managed to find any discussion of a table headers addition. I understand not supporing all of the possible table markup, which is extensive. But captions seem pretty obvious to me. I'm finishing up a Perl module that parses Creole 1.0 and will probably add an optional caption syntax. I'm thinking |? caption text. Opinions?
-- JasonBurnett, 2007-Sep-04
If it's going to be included in Creole, I'd prefer the same syntax for captions for tables and images. See the recent discussion at Talk.Images.
-- YvesPiguet, 2007-Sep-04
It's interesting that other people have had the same pursuit of creating a standardized Wiki markup. I've been using Tiki Text
in my Perl scripts for some time. Overall, WikiCreole is quite similar to Tiki Text in markup, except Creole doubles the Wiki markup to make sure it's markup.
Here's my Tiki Text Cheat Sheet to illustrate it:
My TikiText Cheat Sheet
Formatting: Links:
!1 h1 CamelCase
!6 h6 [Text]:URL
*bold* http://cpan.org
/italics/ {alt text}:IMG-URL
*/both/* ACRONYM(ACRONYM desc)
+inserted+
-strike- Lists:
^superscript^ * Unordered list
~subscript~ # Ordered list
"quote" ; Definition
@cite@ : item 1
SP or Tab pre : item 2
% code
%code% Entities:
---- HR (TM) (R) (C) ... --
> blockquote 1/4 1/2 3/4
Tables:
|!heading 1|heading 2|heading 3|
|< left |^ center |> right |
|^ centered across 3 columns ||| (empty cells span)
I think it should be considered to glean some of the markup styles from Tiki Text for the next version of Creole.
In particular, the table cell justification, -strike through-, +inserted+, some form of quoting, maybe even @cite@. Obviously, if we double the markup for the Creole standard, --strike--, ++insert++ , the style consistency would be maintained.
In addition, having Tiki Text is under Perl's Artistic Creative license. Someone would probably need to check with Timothy Appnel for his blessing to use, extract and modify anything of his. I wouldn't think any Perl programmer using the Artistic license would have a problem with it.
-- MarkStinson, 2007-Nov-9
I especially like the table justification and cell spanning, very useful, which wouldn't conflict with Creole 1.0. I'd rather not include any entity in the core of Creole, though.
-- YvesPiguet, 2007-Nov-9
Yes. Table justification is nice, just the ^ would conflict with other wiki markup (I think e.g. DokuWiki) which uses it as table heading markup. I don't mind too much though, since Mixed Mode seems to become very unlikely for most engines anyway...
-- ChristophSauer, 2007-Nov-09 12:46 (CET)
I too like the simple cell alignment control and use it regularly.
When it comes to cell spanning, considerations must be made for which empty cells span.
If you have empty cells in the beginning of a row, such as a column header, it shouldn't necessarily span:
| |= col 1 |= col 2 | |row 1| r1c1 | r1c2 | |row 2| r2c1 | r2c2 |
but, if trailing cells are empty, should it span automatically unless you put in a space or ?
| |= col 1 |= col 2 | | |= col 1 |= col 2 | | |= col 1 |= col 2 | |row 1| r1c1 | r1c2 | vs. |row 1| r1c1 | r1c2 | vs. |row 1| r1c1 | r1c2 | |row 2| r2c1 | | |row 2| r2c1 (spans) || |row 2| r2c1 ||(examples of with and without natural white space, and source-text alignment.)
Maybe it should be if there's "no space" between vertical bars, it represents a NULL resulting in a SPAN. I believe this is how Tiki Text does it. (Note: I don't use spanning in Tiki Text in my situation. I like having a consistent grids in my scripts' output controlled by CSS.)
This might go against the grain for some folks used to using || for separating cells or those that like spacing for source-text alignment but natural white space in cells are treated as NULLs.
-- MarkStinson, 2007-Nov-12