| At line 3 changed one line |
| ''About unordered lists and bold: a line starting with ** (including optional whitespace before and afterwards), immediately following an unordered list element a line above, will be treated as a nested unordered list element. Otherwise it will be treated as the beginning of bold text. Also note that bold and/or italics cannot span lines in a list.'' |
| //About unordered lists and bold: a line starting with {{{**}}} (including optional whitespace before and afterwards), immediately following an unordered list element a line above, will be treated as a nested unordered list element. Otherwise it will be treated as the beginning of bold text. Also note that bold and/or italics cannot span lines in a list.// |
| At line 5 changed one line |
| I think it's ugly and complicates the parser needlessly. Also, many wikis already have very similar list markup, just without this special case -- making them accept both Creole and native markup at the same time would require some sort of a hack (I can't even imagine it currently). One possible way of getting rid of that special case and still keeping list markup unambigous with bold markup is __requiring__ a space after the bullet. |
| I think it's ugly and complicates the parser needlessly. Also, many wikis already have very similar list markup, just without this special case -- making them accept both Creole and native markup at the same time would require some sort of a hack (I can't even imagine it currently). One possible way of getting rid of that special case and still keeping list markup unambigous with bold markup is //requiring// a space after the bullet. |
| At line 7 changed one line |
| Now, this is a different case than with space __before__ the bullet. There are wiki engines that don't allow space before the bullet, and those that require it -- making it optional is really the only way to make them agree. On the other hand, no wiki engine I know prohibits the space after the bullet. Some require it. |
| === Advantages to NOT requiring space after bullet === |
| * no opportunity for mistakes |
| ** since both space and no space are interpreted the same, the user doesn't need to remember to put the space |
| * compact text |
| ** list items without the space after them take up less horizontal space in the text area |
| ** long urls in lists may invoke a wrapping bug, leaving the bullet alone on a line -- with the line wrapped at the space immediately after the bullet |
| ** less keystrokes are required to type list items |
| ** it is faster to convert a collection of paragraphs into a list by just putting a single asterisk in front of every paragraph |
| * "smart" behavior |
| ** the right decisions for users in most common cases |
| ** users will be impressed with the system |
| * already exists |
| ** this is the behavior defined for Creole so far |
| ** this is implemented in some of the Creole parsers |
| At line 9 changed one line |
| Moreover, putting a space after most punctuation characters is a tradition, and for many people -- a reflex. I can see nothing unnatural in requiring it -- and __it simplifies the parsers and the specs__ -- making Creole both easier to implement and to teach. |
| === Advantages to requiring space after bullet === |
| * looks better |
| ** nice-looking interface means better emotional response of the users and perceived "friendliness" |
| ** additional space provides for easy scanning of text, making it more readable |
| ** because of technological deficiencies of wikis, users need to find the place they wanted to edit in the raw text; spacing marks the structure of the document visually |
| * is simple |
| ** the ambiguities with other markup are solved once and for all |
| ** the rule is very simple to explain, making Creole easier to teach |
| ** the rule can be easily observed by the users, making Creole easier to learn |
| ** Creole is easier to design and maintain with less special cases |
| * is local |
| ** the result of formatting depends only on the line's content itself, not on the context in which the line appears |
| ** the text can be easily moved around, copied and pasted |
| ** users don't need to scroll the text area to make sure what the formatting does |
| ** the markup that worked before in one case will also work the same in other cases |
| ** parsers can be tested and debugged more easily, as there is less interaction of different rules |
| * is traditional |
| ** it is a well established tradition, coming from the era of typewriters, to put a space after the bullet; this tradition is carried over to text files on computers |
| ** it is even older tradition in typography to put lead after (to the right of) punctuation characters like periods, colons, dashes or bullets |
| ** the space appears there anyways when rendered using practically any text rendering mechanism popular in wikis -- be it HTML, XHTML, docbook, LaTeX or texinfo. |
| * is user friendly |
| ** users make less mistakes with simple rules |
| ** allows to use single asterisks for bold, even when it is not parsed |
| ** introducing additional markup is easier, without a risk of introducing new conflicts and ambiguities |
| ** users don't need to do additional formatting of other's text to make it readable and easy to edit |
| ** removes unnatural restrictions from other markup -- emphasis can span lines, list items can consist of multiple lines |
| At line 11 changed one line |
| For consistency's sake, it would also apply to the numbered lists and indentation (if included) -- that resolves a conflict with {{{#pragma}}} syntax that some wikis use. |
| Also see: [[EnginesUsingAsterisksForListsAndBold]] |
| At line 13 changed one line |
| We can also drop the requirement of emphasis not spanning lines with this. |
| == Visual comparsion == |
| At line 15 changed one line |
| === Advantages to NOT requiring space after bullet === |
| === Without the space === |
| {{{ |
| 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 |
| 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 |
| Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam |
| nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat |
| volutpat. |
| *Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper |
| suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. |
| *Duis autem vel eum iriure dolor in hendrerit in vulputate velit esse |
| molestie consequat, vel illum dolore eu feugiat nulla facilisis at |
| vero eros et accumsan et iusto odio dignissim qui blandit praesent |
| luptatum zzril delenit augue duis dolore te feugait nulla facilisi. |
| *Nam liber tempor cum soluta nobis eleifend option congue nihil |
| imperdiet doming id quod mazim placerat facer possim assum. |
| *Typi non habent claritatem insitam; est usus legentis in iis qui |
| facit eorum claritatem. Investigationes demonstraverunt lectores |
| legere me lius quod ii legunt saepius. |
| *Claritas est etiam processus dynamicus, qui sequitur mutationem |
| consuetudium lectorum. |
| At line 17 changed 5 lines |
| *more user freedom |
| *less ongoing user frustration (user will keep forgetting to add the required space) |
| *already in [Creole 0.4] |
| * less keypresses |
| * less space taken up by the raw text in the (possibly narrow) textarea |
| Mirum est notare quam littera gothica, quam nunc putamus parum |
| claram, anteposuerit litterarum formas humanitatis per seacula |
| quarta decima et quinta decima. Eodem modo typi, qui nunc nobis |
| videntur parum clari, fiant sollemnes in futurum. |
| }}} |
| === With the space === |
| {{{ |
| 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 |
| 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 |
| Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam |
| nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat |
| volutpat. |
| * Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper |
| suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. |
| * Duis autem vel eum iriure dolor in hendrerit in vulputate velit esse |
| molestie consequat, vel illum dolore eu feugiat nulla facilisis at |
| vero eros et accumsan et iusto odio dignissim qui blandit praesent |
| luptatum zzril delenit augue duis dolore te feugait nulla facilisi. |
| * Nam liber tempor cum soluta nobis eleifend option congue nihil |
| imperdiet doming id quod mazim placerat facer possim assum. |
| * Typi non habent claritatem insitam; est usus legentis in iis qui |
| facit eorum claritatem. Investigationes demonstraverunt lectores |
| legere me lius quod ii legunt saepius. |
| * Claritas est etiam processus dynamicus, qui sequitur mutationem |
| consuetudium lectorum. |
| At line 23 changed one line |
| === Advantages to requiring space after bullet === |
| Mirum est notare quam littera gothica, quam nunc putamus parum |
| claram, anteposuerit litterarum formas humanitatis per seacula |
| quarta decima et quinta decima. Eodem modo typi, qui nunc nobis |
| videntur parum clari, fiant sollemnes in futurum. |
| }}} |
| === Formatted === |
| {{{ |
| 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 |
| 01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 |
| Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam |
| nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat |
| volutpat. |
| * Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper |
| suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. |
| * Duis autem vel eum iriure dolor in hendrerit in vulputate velit esse |
| molestie consequat, vel illum dolore eu feugiat nulla facilisis at |
| vero eros et accumsan et iusto odio dignissim qui blandit praesent |
| luptatum zzril delenit augue duis dolore te feugait nulla facilisi. |
| * Nam liber tempor cum soluta nobis eleifend option congue nihil |
| imperdiet doming id quod mazim placerat facer possim assum. |
| * Typi non habent claritatem insitam; est usus legentis in iis qui |
| facit eorum claritatem. Investigationes demonstraverunt lectores |
| legere me lius quod ii legunt saepius. |
| * Claritas est etiam processus dynamicus, qui sequitur mutationem |
| consuetudium lectorum. |
| At line 25 changed 9 lines |
| * makes parsers easier to write |
| * no ambiguity with bold |
| * no ambiguity with {{{#pragma}}} or {{{##comment}}} |
| * more readable (and nicer, heh) raw text |
| * leaves more space for extending Creole (eg. using different characters for bullets), solves the ambiguity problem once and for all |
| * consistent with the tradition of putting a space after punctuation characters |
| * consistent with the practice of using at least two characters for markup |
| * consistent with the (both default and traditional) presentation |
| * already used in thousands of text documents |
| Mirum est notare quam littera gothica, quam nunc putamus parum |
| claram, anteposuerit litterarum formas humanitatis per seacula |
| quarta decima et quinta decima. Eodem modo typi, qui nunc nobis |
| videntur parum clari, fiant sollemnes in futurum. |
| }}} |
.