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| * enclosing in (localized) quote characters in case of {{{<q>}}} (not supported by MSIE) |
| * indenting in case of {{{<blockquote>>>}}} (some e-mail readers also add a vertical bar along the text) |
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| * enclosing in (localized) quote characters in case of {{{<q>}}} (not supported by MSIE) |
| * indenting in case of {{{<blockquote>>>}}} (some e-mail readers also add a vertical bar along the text) |
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| intead of using headings, like this: |
| intead of using headings, like this: |
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| : Second paragraph of item one |
| # First paragraph of item two |
| : Second paragraph of item one |
| # First paragraph of item two |
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| most likely want the ">" characters preserved! |
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| most likely want the ">" characters preserved! |
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| case (consider "'Tis a fools' errand"), and we don;t want to make Creole |
| case (consider "'Tis a fools' errand"), and we don;t want to make Creole |
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| : Second paragraph of item one |
| # First paragraph of item two |
| : Second paragraph of item one |
| # First paragraph of item two |
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| <li>Item 1<br /> |
| <li>Item 1<br /> |
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| </li> |
| </li> |
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| {{{\\}}} (double backslash) and {{{\\\}}} (triple backslash) could be used anywhere (not only in lists). I know that the {{{\\\}}} (triple backslash) is a new markup but is there a Wiki out there that makes that difference already? IMO, they should. |
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| {{{\\}}} (double backslash) and {{{\\\}}} (triple backslash) could be used anywhere (not only in lists). I know that the {{{\\\}}} (triple backslash) is a new markup but is there a Wiki out there that makes that difference already? IMO, they should. |
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| Yeah, numbered lists (I mean the {{{<ol>}}} kind, not the kind with server-side generated numbers) are pretty much useless on the web, except for maybe two cases: tables of content and when you want to have the list items counted automatically. Continuing on the "use combination of markups to get what you need" idea, if we had the ":" indentation proposal from above implemented in form of bulletless lists, you could simply write: |
| Yeah, numbered lists (I mean the {{{<ol>}}} kind, not the kind with server-side generated numbers) are pretty much useless on the web, except for maybe two cases: tables of content and when you want to have the list items counted automatically. Continuing on the "use combination of markups to get what you need" idea, if we had the ":" indentation proposal from above implemented in form of bulletless lists, you could simply write: |
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| the definition |
| the definition |
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| It isn't much worse: |
| {{{ |
| ;the term: the definition |
| }}} |
| With your proposition, we have stealth markup which isn't necessarily easier to understand for the user, imo. |
| -- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-02-09 |
| Actually, Mediawiki indentations and quotations are not the same thing. They're semantically very different. |
| # In the first case, we've a //remark//, a comment of the user addressing some precise part of the current document. An editor's introduction before an article is a good example of a remark. |
| # In the second case, we've a //quotation//, something produced by another person, which probably the user is going to talk about in the document. |
| Then, they should be different. I think ":" is appropriate for the first case, and ">" for the second one. But I guess it's too much for others here :) |
| Anyway, they're two different constructs which are both quite common. |
| -- [[MicheleTomaiuolo]], 2007-02-09 |
| Quotation is a semantic element. It's... well, it's the thing that the quoted text is. You know what I mean ;) |
| Indentation is a typographical element. It can mean a million things, inlcuding "just indentation" alone too (for example when explaining what indentation is). What it actually is depends partially on the tradition, but mostly on the context and style of the particular author (or style shared in the particular wiki community). |
| Of course, quotation also has to be marked somehow -- usually with quotes or italics or indentation. Sometimes with monospaced font, different color, different background or some graphical symbol. |
| Now, there is a dillema. Should we provide markup for meanings, and relieve the users from the burden of inventing presentation for them, or should we only provide the tools, and allow users to do whatever they want with them, incuding sawing off the branch on which they sit? |
| If we decide to provide semantic markup **only**, it will inevitably be misused in creative ways -- to make up those parts of semantic markup that we missed or that the user doesn't know (or doesn't care about). |
| If we decide to only provide presentational markup, then we burden the users with decissions on how to use it, encourage communities to form their own, secret meta-markup, and end up with a bunch of pages that look ok until you try to change something on them. |
| I believe that the answer, as usual, lies in the middle. Now where exactly -- **that** we need to decide. How? I don't know. |
| I shall note that if we provide two markups, for quotations and for indentation, and they happen to be rendered the same on a particular wiki, there is a high probability that they will be used interchangeably. I'd like to avoid that. |
| -- RadomirDopieralski, 2007-02-09 |
| I have a simple proposal for quotes: |
| I would suggest one of two possibilities:- {{{'''Quoted text'''}}} or {{{[[[Quoted text]]]}}} and probably both!!! |
| The reason for {{{'''}}} (triple single quote) is obvious. {{{''}}} may be confused with ", but three single quotes is obviously not two and with equal spacing must be three single quotes and they are implicitly a quote. OK, wikipedia uses three single quotes in its own bizarre type of formatting, but this use is so intutitve and wikipedia's not only lacks intuitiveness but is downright confusing and I can still not remember whether two or three are needed for bold or italic. |
| The reason for {{{[[[ ... ]]]}}} is less obvious, but is a parallel to {{{ { { { ... } } } }}} in that (some) text in between the brackets is not parsed. As quotes need to contain formatting like bold, italic, underline etc. these need to be parsed (so you also need ~) but spaces and newlines and uline followed by '#*|:' should be preserved as original. |
| The other reason for {{{[[[ ... ]]]}}} is that it is then possible to quote a quote:- |
| Did you hear what the DJ said he was told by elvis:- |
| {{{[[[ Yere I met elvis his told me [[[ I love hamburgers ]]] ]]]}}}. |
| Finally, all quotes should be attributable so the general format would be: {{{[[[quoted text |Author]]]}}} or {{{''' Quoted text |Author'''}}} |
| Did you hear what the DJ said he was told by elvis:- |
| {{{[[[ Yere I met elvis his told me [[[ I love hamburgers |Elvis]]] | DJ ]]]}}}. |
| -- [[Isonomia]] |
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