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This page (revision-48) was last changed on 26-Sep-2007 09:06 by ChuckSmith  

This page was created on 21-Mar-2007 16:54 by YvesPiguet

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At line 146 changed one line
By the way, Gregor, it was me who conducted the experiment with counting markup uses on Wikipedia. I admit that it wasn't well-thought -- I just wanted to see what happens, I didn't follow a systematic scientific method. Anybody can repeat this or do some new experiments easily -- the page database of Wikipedia is available for download (unfortunatelly, without the history). But it is very hard to form a consisten, provable theory, you know.
By the way, Gregor, it was me who conducted the experiment with counting markup uses on Wikipedia. I admit that it wasn't well-thought -- I just wanted to see what happens, I didn't follow a systematic scientific method. Anybody can repeat this or do some new experiments easily -- the page database of Wikipedia is available for download (unfortunatelly, without the history). But it is very hard to form a consistent, provable theory, you know.
At line 177 changed 3 lines
**Lists** (1=strongly disagree, 3=don't care, 5=strongly agree):
||Name ||Creole 0.5\\1 ||Creole 0.5+disamb. rules\\2 ||{{{/^\** /}}}\\2 ||{{{/^ *\** /}}}\\3 ||{{{/^-* /}}}\\4 ||{{{/^ *- /}}}\\5
|Foobar |? |? |? |? |? |?
//Poll proposition moved to [[Creole0.6PollArchive]].//
At line 181 changed 6 lines
# As in Creole 0.5, weakly defined.
# As in Creole 0.5, but with disambiguation rules for bold (e.g. "no bold at the beginning of a line in the context of a list")
# One or more stars at the beginning of a line, followed by at least one space (can be mixed with #).
# One or more stars with leading spaces ignored, followed by at least one space (can be mixed with #).
# One or more hyphens at the beginning of a line, followed by at least one space (can be mixed with #).
# Single hyphen followed by at least one space, leading spaces used to indicate the nesting level (hyphen replaced with # for numbered lists)
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-10
At line 188 changed 3 lines
**Escape character** (1=strongly disagree, 3=don't care, 5=strongly agree):
||Name ||None ||tilde\\+any ||tilde\\+nonalphanum ||tilde+Creole markup\\excl. pref. block ||tilde+Creole markup\\incl. pref. block ||other esc. char||Postpone\\to 0.7
|Foobar |? |? |? |? |? |? |?
Do we poll here or better on a separate page, like for example [[Creole0.6PollArchive]]? Btw, I'd replace the spaces with \s in the above regexps, both for including tabs and btter readability.
At line 192 changed 3 lines
**Splitting nowiki and monospace** (1=strongly disagree, 3=don't care, 5=strongly agree):
||Name ||Creole 0.5 ||Triple-braces for nowiki w/out style\\double-sharp for monospace ||Other\\(explain below) ||Postpone\\to 0.7
|Foobar |? |? |? |?
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-10
At line 185 added 2 lines
It might be better to have a separate page. For regexps, as long as we keep textual descriptions for people like myself who aren't as familiar with perl or sed as experts like you, no problem! Just clarify how leading spaces and tabs are counted for nesting: sum of tabs and spaces, I'd say.
At line 198 changed one line
Do we poll here or better on a separate page, like for example [[Creole 0.6 Poll]]? Btw, I'd replace the spaces with \s in the above regexps, both for including tabs and btter readability.
Proposition moved to [[Creole0.6PollArchive]]. Proposed starting time: 6 p.m. CET. Please comment on suggested end on [[Talk.Creole 0.6 Poll]].
At line 200 changed one line
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-10
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-10
At first glance, I don't like the tilde too much, either. Is there somewhere where I can read up on its benefits? To me, it feels like a construct that seems nice in theory, but leads to chaos in practice. It would nice to have some motivating examples. It would be useful for escaping free-standing CamelCase words; but that is something I strongly oppose, anyway.
EDIT: I've found the [[EscapeCharacterProposal]].
As for nowiki, do we have a list of duties that this construct must/should fulfill? For example:
* Escaping: Escape any kind of Creole command.
* Monospace font style: Really necessary for writing about code on a wiki page. Do we really want to (ab)use nowiki for this? Or are there other proposals? Is double-sharp a proposed markup for monospace?
* Plain <pre>: This is quite different from the above, mainly in the way whitespace is handled.
* Monospace <pre>: Could be a combination of plain <pre> plus monospace markup.
-- [[Axel Rauschmayer]], 2007-04-11
The last bit is confusing to me - I believe pre-markup (where whitespace is preserved) without monospace does not make sense, all html style I know renderes pre with markup.
I can do without any other form of monospace, especially monospace + bold/italic, thus having block level three-braces for pre and inline-three-braces for nowiki-monospace, as present in this JSPWiki anyways, is fine with me. I can not do very well without escaping creole and native wiki-commands //without affecting formatting//, i.e. even inside a italic or bold-formatted string. There are too many commonly used character combinations part of markup (especially double forward/backward slash. Others here seemed to have claimed the opposite, probably because their use case is computer code.
I prefer Wiki markup to be easily remembered and convenient, therefore I proposed three-braces for block/inline pre/nowiki-monospace, double braces for nowiki (=inline escaping), and tilde for single-character nowiki. The main use case is a requirement to allow one form of escaping that works without affecting sourrounding formatting, however.
-- [[Gregor Hagedorn]], 2007-04-04
Concerning nowiki/pre, this sounds exactly right. I'm still not convinced, we need single-character nowiki.
Another thought: Should there be a construct that allows the insertion of raw HTML?
-- [[Axel Rauschmayer]], 2007-04-11
Then all users would have to learn html to be ble to edit the html others inserted. Also, this would pose considerable implementation problems, especially for the parsers that use somethng different than html for output (a Crele2Latex converter is on the way), not to mention filtering the html to avoid cross-site scripting attacks.
While collecting data for the NowikiMarkupComparison, I noticed that some wiki engines make another distinction: a pre block with spaces and newlines preserved, but wiki markup (like links and emphasis) allowed. My own personal wiki uses a custom markup for pre blocks with proportional fonts -- for the sole purpose of displaying poetry (inserting {{{\\}}} everywhere is hardly convenient, but poems and lysrics set with monospace font are very ugly). Wonder if we should consider these two too? Block-level double-brace anyone? ;)
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-11
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
48 26-Sep-2007 09:06 21.219 kB ChuckSmith to previous restore
47 26-Sep-2007 00:58 21.622 kB 219.138.204.162 to previous | to last
46 26-Sep-2007 00:57 21.612 kB 161.200.255.162 to previous | to last
45 12-Apr-2007 15:03 21.6 kB 84.150.58.37 to previous | to last
44 12-Apr-2007 09:01 21.42 kB 80.92.102.210 to previous | to last
43 11-Apr-2007 23:48 21.219 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last everyone would need to learn html; more pre variants
42 11-Apr-2007 21:51 20.311 kB 84.150.2.66 to previous | to last
41 11-Apr-2007 21:42 20.224 kB 84.150.2.66 to previous | to last
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